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Post by gloryhound on Jun 28, 2019 21:24:47 GMT -5
I noticed an idea pop up on the GDB a little while ago. It was ignored/shit on in the usual way but I'm not sure it really deserved that.
It went like this, if I understood correctly (I've fleshed it out a little with my own notions actually):
1. Some sort of invisible, untouchable object with a bit of code attached to it is placed in a room.
2. Staff can program the object to react to circumstances and assign odds of that happening. If a trigger is tested, the object goes inert for a period of time (to prevent someone from trolling back and forth from the room).
3. Reactions could be things like loading a pair of jakhals in a nearby room with a message about nearby snarling, or having a rock fall from above and maybe strike someone, or placing a object with a message about it peeping out of the sands, or whatever. Lots of possibilities.
Staff would program each possible reaction with a single command. E.g.:
>addaction triggerNumPC=2 chance=2 loadNPC=N35515 loadNum=2 loadMess="A deep, ugly snarling sound comes from nearby."
>addaction triggerNumTemplar=1 chance=3 loadOb=O11122 loadNum=1 damChance=30 damAmount=10 loadMess="A jagged rock falls in from above!" damMess="It strikes %n on the head!"
>listaction ...list of the various actions currently enabled..
>
And so on.
It would take some effort to create the code for the staff to use, but after that it would be easy to program once the syntax is understood. Trigger objects could be placed about strategically.
This could turn a static world into one where, every once in a while, an unexpected event happens without staff being there. Important when some staff members don't have a lot of time to be active in the game, or aren't really inclined to do small, random animations, right? The events could even be chained together to form small quests.
Now, my question is, why does this seem to lack appeal to people? There were no positive responses.
I'd especially like to hear lyse's view, she always seems to have a good bead on things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2019 21:54:06 GMT -5
I like it.
could you link me the thread please?
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delerak
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Jun 28, 2019 21:54:08 GMT -5
Bringing the world alive is always a good thing. Automation is a good thing too especially for muds that run 24/7 but people cannot, that is why we automate combat, crafting, etc. Can you imagine if you had to emote craft and then wish up to get the item?
I am all for: -making the world more dangerous, being able to ride/walk from 'nak to luirs with little to no danger is very unrealistic -making the world respond more realistically. -adding more stuff in general to the world. There are far too few random villages with NPCs. Same thing for oases, the world should have a few oases every 50-100 rooms or so and odds are that there should be civilization there trying to fight over the precious resource. You could even have PCs build camps at the oases and compete for it to be their stomping grounds. This ties into my next one. -anything that adds realistic conflict. IE: adding oases, camps, more natural disasters (make the tremendous sandstorm do even more, maybe hp/stun damage or something if you aren't wearing protective gear like sunslits and facewraps..), I could go on for a while.
Could probably write more but don't want to get too carried away.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jun 28, 2019 21:54:43 GMT -5
It seems very doable given what I've heard about how extensive Armageddon's scripting system is, in Javascript. It would probably take one knowledgeable programmer to hack it out and test it over the course of a couple weeks, and then storytellers could implement it in various places over the course of months. Reminds me of random encounters that you'd see in games like The Elder Scrolls, Red Dead Redemption, and similar games.
Was all of the negative response from players, or did some of it come from staff?
As to why it lacks appeal among the general playerbase, I offer a few guesses: - Something about staff having limited time and needing to focus on <insert player's pet cause here> instead of making new things for everyone, because it's not like there are 15 staff members and staff members certainly can't work on more than one project at a time. - Status quo of a relatively static, dead world is predictable, and thus preferable for the purposes of keeping characters alive instead of "dying to random bullshit" in the form of a couple of snarling jackals. - Typical Lizzie slippery slope argument of "if we have coded random events out in the world, people will go to those rooms all of the time and they'll never hang out in the Gaj". Or to be less reductionist, people will play more explorers and fewer soldiers, guards, and general clan members. - People might "farm" the rooms despite the protections against trying to repeatedly trigger the events. Nevermind that Nergal previously scripted a way to spawn objects randomly through the world already, so even these invisible objects could theoretically show up in a randomly-chosen room from among a list of rooms, so "farming" these rooms would be impossible.
I can't personally think of a legitimate reason it would be a bad idea for the game, provided it serves as an assistant (and not a replacement) for storyteller-led worldbuilding through animation (as opposed to world enforcement through animation).
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Post by triskelion on Jun 28, 2019 22:26:17 GMT -5
I think the only kinds of scripts people don't like are the 'rocks fall everyone dies' varieties
Anything that makes the world more alive and gives you the sense of 'what will I find on this ride?' is a good thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 0:21:57 GMT -5
I think the only kinds of scripts people don't like are the 'rocks fall everyone dies' varieties Anything that makes the world more alive and gives you the sense of 'what will I find on this ride?' is a good thing. I like it, except that its a solution in search of a problem to solve.
I think the problem isnt "how to make the world a better sim?", but instead, "how to automate the delivery of story frameworks since humans take too long to prep story and deliver it". I havent figured the answer to that one, but I think the person who does will be pretty wealthy on the proceeds.
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Post by explayer on Sept 1, 2019 12:04:05 GMT -5
This was my idea in fact.
It's not a "solution in search of a problem to solve". It very directly addresses three problems Arm has. Firstly, the world is very static on its own. People learn exactly what to expect in a given place and it rarely changes (and when it does, it quickly becomes the new normal again). Secondly, the staff cannot do several to many small-scale animations or events a day on the fly. It's just not how their culture works. They need consensus for everything, for one, and consensus takes time to obtain. When they do do them, it's according to their own particular affinities, it's not truly random. Thirdly, there is a strong staff bias against doing anything that actually might reward characters. Enforcing a "harsh environment" doesn't require any justification, but giving some character a reward is stepping into dangerous territory.
By what means does this address these?
It creates a sense of the unexpected and the "anything can happen" again. Now, a pair of thieves might actually appear in that shadowy alleyway and try to mug someone or knock them out sometime. Now, a gemstone might glint in the dust for someone to find. Now, a clue to finding the entrance to some buried ruin might be obtained. The limit is the imagination. Read about the notion of "intermittent rewards"; people really respond to them. You don't even need to do that much, just a sense of there being possibilities brings the world alive to people.
All things on the event stack would be pre-approved. Instead of having to get permission for minor animations or events on the fly, the events placed on the stack could be reviewed and approved at leisure. You, the Storyteller or Builder, would come up with a list of ten or twenty new events for a given zone and the Administrator would review and add them to the stack. They could invite player submissions. So much less impedance than trying to decide when and where to do them manually and getting the nod for them at the time. It also means one or two characters can experience the unexpected instead of having to wait to be in a sizable group for the staff to deem it worth the effort. It also means the off-peak players would effectively get as much attention as the peak players. And events could be reusable: they could be changed around between zones, they could be redressed but be effectively the same idea, and so on. You wouldn't need a flash of creative genius every time.
Including things that reward characters! You as the Storyteller no longer need to simply play it safe all of the time because no Administrator is at hand or they're too busy to be disturbed. You just submit some positive things on your packet of events and they approve them (or not, if they're too out of line).
It seems like a no-brainer to me. It's like an added layer to the building process in a sense. It wouldn't prevent staff from doing manual events/animations too. Yet I had one guy on the GDB bluntly call the idea stupid. I detest that place.
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